Education about kosher tech is broken?

[flipphoneguy]

Meh. That’s opinions. People are maybe too careful thinking that everything is a problem. There are much more people that think everything is a problem than the amount who are too careless IMHO.

Some people can’t drive normally when they’re 30 and some people (obviously not myself ) could when they are 15.

Same with tech. Some people can’t have calling cuz they can find a number of bad hotlines, others can’t have texting cuz they’ll be on schmutz chats, some can’t have AI cuz they’ll ask it bad stuff. For the rest of us normies, we use our brains.

[Dev-in-the-BM_2.0]

@flipphoneguy

Some people can’t have calling cuz they can find a number of bad hotlines, others can’t have texting cuz they’ll be on schmutz chats, some can’t have AI cuz they’ll ask it bad stuff. For the rest of us normies, we use our brains.

Sounds like

Some people can’t have marijuana because it makes them eat a lot.
Some people can’t do crack because they don’t know how to control themselves.
Others are too delicate for fentanyl and will overdose.
For the rest of us normies, we use our brains.

[Rafael]

I hate to get involved here, but calling ≠ marijuana, texting ≠ crack, & even AI ≠ fentanyl.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[flipphoneguy]

Sounds like you’re close minded and think that since you feel that way about tech, it’s probably just as true as drugs.

Sounds like you may be from the minority I was talking about that for them simple technology may be very dangerous.

[Dev-in-the-BM_2.0]

@Shalom_Karr

who are you to decide what other people should have if they want a group chat

You must have missed this part:

@Dev-in-the-BM_2.0

I might be extremely opinionated on some of my stances on tech, but I’m not trying to force on to anyone what they should or shouldn’t use.

I don’t believe that there’s a clear right and wrong.

YOU should choose to decide, in YOUR situation, based on the objective facts, about these what is right for you, and what standards you want to keep to.

@Shalom_Karr

And besides My mother uses a group chat to communicate with the rest of my fathers kollel and with the block and there are rides chats that people use - there are needs

I don’t think I said anything arguing on that.

@Shalom_Karr

@Dev-in-the-BM_2.0

Now you go be an adult and make your own decisions based on your life circumstances, priorities, and self control.

You gotta make up your mind - can we make our own desicions or are you making them for us

Please show me where I said that I’m deciding what’s right and wrong.

@Shalom_Karr

Well what does that have to do with anything?

You and I both know that that was a stupid nonsensical comment that I made, and I deleted it within a minute.

I’m not sure why you undeleted it, screenshotted it to make sure that even if I delete it again everyone will still see it, and then keep going back to it.

Kinda gives the vibe that your arguments are emotional instead of coming from logic, or being in good faith.

As if you’re trying to prove that that’s what it is, you had to post gems like:

@Shalom_Karr

You went over the edge a while ago trying to convince GroupMe to stop SMS

and

@Shalom_Karr

So then I would say to just shut up is probably your smartest move here

---

@Shalom_Karr

So now go say that really driving is assur because it can take away from your learning and you need to get self driving only

I don’t think I even need to respond to that, but just in case I did need to, @sh7411usa did it for me.

[Mo_Gen]

Just reading on ivlet, that phone companies started phone hachsherim makes you lose ALL your trust in all these things,
Point is u got to know yourself what’s right and what’s wrong, there’s no other way about it, a general Klal or rule would never work for everyone,

What I think @Dev-in-the-BM_2.0 is pointing out is more futures apps and touch screen are becoming a standard.

[SimchaR]

@Dev-in-the-BM_2.0

I thought I was pretty clear that I’m not drawing a line where tech becomes bad or wrong.

Your entire OP is talking about the “problems” in tech and you mention swipes. And given your previous stances I am not crazy for understanding you as drawing that very line.

To all the people talking about parents not knowing things and we need to educate them or they’ll let their kids get an unfiltered QIN and similar comments:
Any. Parent. Who. Gets. Their. Kid. A. Phone. Just. Because. It. Says. Kosher. Is. A. Moron. Mor. On. Full. Stop. It’s no different than buying anything you find in ShopRite with a K. Or in Israel eating literally any hechsher. Etc etc. Nobody can fix stupid. Ask around. Call one of the myriad organizations who answer these questions. Klal Yisroel literally has been dealing with tech obsessively for years and it is not hard to do basic research.

[SimchaR]

@SimchaR

Your entire OP is talking about the “problems” in tech and you mention swipes. And given your previous stances I am not crazy for understanding you as drawing that very line.

You can now explain yourself that you meant that there should be awareness about potential problems with that yada yada but like I said given the way you always seem to talk here you should’ve been clear up front

[Dev-in-the-BM_2.0]

@SimchaR

Your entire OP is talking about the “problems” in tech and you mention swipes.

Oh my, I’m really being misunderstood in this topic.

I never said everything that I mentioned there is bad.

Just either not the best, nuanced, complicated, or there’s what to discuss, even if the answer is okay.

And yes, gesture driven UX is more smartphony, engaging, and enticing.

[Dev-in-the-BM_2.0]

@SimchaR

You can now explain yourself that you meant that there should be awareness about potential problems with that yada yada

Jinks.

But when I first wrote that post, it was just a post in another topic.

Wasn’t meant to be the OP in a huge discussion.

Gonna have to fix it up when I have more patience for all this.

[Flippy]

So good if you just want to go around calling people morons, instead of trying to help, no problem - you don’t have to be part of the solution. Others feel like they can try to help. Not to fix people, but to educate ones that are interested.

[Mo_Gen]

The place is strongly sensored, but i saw a full Snapshot of the post
Will try to find

[SimchaR]

Please tell me kind sir. How do you plan on educating people who do not care enough

[SimchaR]

I have nothing against education. My point is that education is not the answer to stupid. You can’t educate stupid people.

There is plenty plenty education out there. TAG (like them or not) does a ton. Before arguing that they don’t (yes some people will bash TAG for anything) do some basic research in to their various programs for schools parents etc.

[SimchaR]

@Mo_Gen

Just reading on ivlet, that phone companies started phone hachsherim makes you lose ALL your trust in all these things,

It’s not phone companies. Someone who started a hechsher is related to someone who (possibly afterwards) started a phone company. Still dirty but not as dirty as implied

[Flippy]

First chill out on the cynicism a bit and agree that it’s an issue and there are people that are just lacking education. And then maybe we can take this conversation towards a solution.

And I’m sorry, but people going to the store and buying things that they think are kosher, because it has a K, that doesn’t necessarily mean they are stupid- It means they need education. They actually were brought up that way and have no clue. If you tell them that that’s not considered kosher, they can learn. Imagine them going to a rabbi, and the rabbi tells them, “Well, you’re obviously too stupid to learn anything because you never knew that K doesn’t mean kosher.” You saying that anyone that doesn’t know anything about technology automatically means they’re stupid and no amount of teaching them is going to help, is both callous and out of touch

[Zvi_Wolf]

didn’t read every comment so not sure exactly how relevant this is, but something I thought would contribute that I posted a bit ago

(also I think most of the conversation here belongs in the thread below)

@Zvi_Wolf

Just to add my 2 cents

Imo a “kosher” phone and a “dumb” phone are not the same thing;

Kosher means that it’s content is halachicly permissable, and in this gufa there are obviously different shitos, some will say only talk and text, some say a whitelisted browser is kosher, some will say not, etc.

“Dumb” (and by contrast, “smart”) are terms describing how accessable the device is. There is no “this is a smartphone” or “this is a dumb phone” (בענין obviously, lpoel there are commonly used terms) rather “this phone is (maybe even incomparably) smart*er* than this one.”

There is your classic Alcatel/tcl flip phone, which most will say is dumb, but then there is one with only 3 buttons, even dumber. Then there is a qin/fig/wonder, touchscreen android phones, but smaller, and by consequence, less addictive then a “smartphone”.

Personally I would call a Sunbeam a “smart dumbphone” and a qin/fig/wonder a “dumb smartphone”

Then you can have a non-kosher (to your standards) dumbphone, or a kosher smartphone

Sorry if you don’t agree, just my opinion

Some might have said this, didn’t read the entire thread.

Sorta similar to some of what @SimchaR is saying

[Mo_Gen]

You have the post?

[Shalom_Karr]

@Dev-in-the-BM_2.0

I wouldn’t call all of them stupid, just some of them are so ignorant they don’t know that there’s what to know.

Stop posting things that your going to delete 1 second later…
and yes that is true - you didn’t have to delete it - I can say it for you

some people are so dumb or ignorant that they don’t know that there’s what to know.

[Shalom_Karr]

@SimchaR

I have nothing against education. My point is that education is not the answer to stupid. You can’t educate stupid people.

There is plenty plenty education out there. TAG (like them or not) does a ton. Before arguing that they don’t (yes some people will bash TAG for anything) do some basic research in to their various programs for schools parents etc.

So TAG has their own opinions and will educate people with that specifically - @DonBot has a nice program called Mesnan that he is working on also which sounds like it will be a nice thing

At least those two are both much better then what I hear about this crazy guy Yossi Strictman who calls himself the ***** Rebbe